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Wątek: ACP, ECU, FIDE

  1. #1

    ACP, ECU, FIDE

    Niedawno miało miejsce spotkanie przedstawicieli ACP i FIDE odnośnie przepisów, regulaminów i systemów rozgrywek :
    http://chess-players.org/eng/news/vi...le.html?id=373
    http://www.fide.com/news.asp?id=707

    Mi się podoba ten punkt :

    G) Fighting short draws: Sofia experience

    ACP considers that some innovations can be introduced into the rules to fight short draws. “Sofia rule” could be one of possible solutions. FIDE shares ACP’s position.
    ACP is to prepare proposals for JC on this subject.
    FIDE considers that the opinions of the top 30-40 players and particularly those who played in Sofia should be taken into consideration.

  2. #2
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    Żebyśmy wiedzieli o czym mówimy:

    FIDE - ACP MEETING

    FIDE office, Athens,
    24.05.2005
    reported by Pavel Tregubov

    I. Duration: 4 hours

    II. Attendance


    From FIDE: From ACP:
    G. Makropoulos (Deputy President) J. Lautier (President)
    Z. Azmaiparashvili (Vice-President) P. Tregubov (Board member)
    I. Gelfer (Executive Board member)

    III. The following subjects were discussed:

    A) Anti-doping control

    ACP representatives (hereinafter ACP) consider that the current doping-list as well as the regulations of players control (too severe) are not fully adapted to chess. FIDE representatives (hereinafter FIDE) agree to have a meeting with Dr Jana Bellin to investigate this question and possibly to produce an adequate doping-list to be submitted to IOC.
    FIDE notes that the introduction of anti-doping control in chess is necessary in order to move towards the Olympic family. At the moment chess is a member of the recently created organization “Mind sports” within GAISF (General Association of International Sport Federation, recognized by IOC). “Mind sports” unites chess, checkers, go and bridge federations and is headed by Mr. Danielli (President of the International Bridge Federation).

    B) Anti-computer and anti-mobile devices control

    ACP offers to use metal detectors during FIDE official tournaments and to impose strong sanctions on cheaters. FIDE agrees.
    The decision to create a joint commission (hereinafter JC) between FIDE and ACP is taken. The purpose of JC is to discuss and to help with solving current problems of the chess world.
    This commission will consist of all the participants to the present meeting and, if necessary, additional FIDE or ACP representatives. ACP is to prepare proposals for JC on anti-computer and anti-mobile devices control.

    C) Fighting pre-arranged tournaments

    ACP is to prepare proposals for JC on this subject.

    D) Cooperation on rules

    ACP expresses its concern about FIDE new rule forbidding writing down the move on the score sheet before playing it on the board.
    FIDE states that players’ opinions on chess rules are welcome.
    ACP is to prepare proposals for JC on this subject.

    E) Official hotels

    ACP supports the abolishment of the official hotels rule, following in ECU’s example.
    FIDE is still in favour of this rule for two principal reasons:
    - FIDE is not able to grant security for players who choose not to stay in the official hotel;
    - In order to get a significant discount on room prices and hotel facilities, tournament organisers must reserve for a large number of players.
    FIDE stresses, however, that the hotel prices should be kept under firm control by FIDE.
    ACP agrees and asks to be informed about the hotel prices in FIDE official events before they are announced.
    FIDE agrees.

    F) Time-control

    Further to the results of the poll held by ACP last year, ACP offers to go back to the classical 7-hours time-control.
    FIDE refuses and gives two arguments:
    - FIDE control is getting more popular among players: it now has more supporters than before as they are getting used to it and female players prefer this control to the classical one.
    - FIDE control is more attractive for media and spectators.
    FIDE is therefore going to use its time control for the next World Cup. Nevertheless the most important stages of the next World Championship cycle (Last Chance tournament and Matches) will be held with the 7-hours control.
    ACP mentions that currently all tournaments use different time controls and players should permanently adapt themselves to a new control.
    To reduce the choice and make it more convenient for players, FIDE will recommend to all organizers to use only one of the following two controls:
    - FIDE official control: (90’/40 + 15’) 30” starting from move 1
    - 7-hours control: (100’/40 + 50’/20 + 15’) 30”starting from move 61
    ( for those events which don’t have electronic clocks it means:
    110’/40 + 30’
    120’/40 + 60’/20 + 30’)
    This recommendation will be made in August during FIDE Presidential Executive Board Meeting in Dresden.

    G) Fighting short draws: Sofia experience

    ACP considers that some innovations can be introduced into the rules to fight short draws. “Sofia rule” could be one of possible solutions. FIDE shares ACP’s position.
    ACP is to prepare proposals for JC on this subject.
    FIDE considers that the opinions of the top 30-40 players and particularly those who played in Sofia should be taken into consideration.

    H) Next World Championship, Argentina

    FIDE informs ACP that organisers fulfilled all financial requirements and all players already signed their Undertakings.

    I) Future World Championship Cycles

    1. Schedule

    FIDE is going to held WCC stages as follows:
    - World Cup (1 572 000 $ prize fund) – December 2005;
    - Last Chance Super tournament ( LCT) – April 2006;
    - Matches – from August 2006.

    2. Zonal tournaments

    ACP suggests to abolish Zonals as the players taking part there get two chances to qualify whereas the others have only one – through Continental Championships. FIDE will carefully examine this idea.

    3. Continental Championships

    ACP considers that the cancellation of +2400 rule for the European Championship damages the tournament’s status.
    FIDE agrees that ACP should be consulted before such a decision is taken and will contact ECU to ask for negotiation of all-important rules’ changes with JC in the future.
    ACP is to prepare proposals on this matter for JC.

    4. Players’ Undertakings

    FIDE position is the following:
    - as FIDE is not a commercial organization, it cannot offer contracts to players;
    - for the Last Chance Super tournament and matches, where the number of players is limited, contracts will be signed between organisers and players directly;
    - for the World Cup tournament (KO), a contract between FIDE and organisers will be added as annex in players’ undertakings;
    - organizers of future events might have to subscribe to insurances, which would cover the case of one of the players not showing up for the event because of force majeure, as in this case sponsor cannot be expected to give the full amount;
    - if the sponsor cannot hold the event, the money given as guarantee to FIDE (currently 30% of total prize fund) should partly go to players to compensate them for lost opportunities.
    ACP agrees with this position.

    J) ELO rating system

    FIDE expresses its willingness to improve the current ELO rating system. In its opinion some changes should be made, for example it should become more dynamic.
    ACP agrees and adds that inactive players should lose rating points. FIDE agrees. Also the idea of changing the K factor in the rating list was examined and referred to the joint commission.
    ACP is to prepare proposals for JC.

    IV. Conclusion

    A. Both sides, FIDE and ACP, agree that progress has been made and are satisfied with the results of the meeting.

    B. The next meeting of JC is planned on 12-13 July 2005 in the FIDE office in Athens.

    C. It is agreed to hold JC meetings on a regular basis.

  3. #3
    Cytat Zamieszczone przez Bartek
    Żebyśmy wiedzieli o czym mówimy
    Somebody here does use with Polish?

  4. Cytat Zamieszczone przez Tomasz P.
    Cytat Zamieszczone przez Bartek
    Żebyśmy wiedzieli o czym mówimy
    Somebody here does use with Polish?
    Co prawda ostanio mala role pelni gramatyka, ale w pytaniach ( w przeczeniach tez) nalezaloby raczej uzyc zaimka anybody albo anyone . A i konstrucja pytania jest troche niegramatyczna.
    pozdrawiam AG

  5. #5
    wniosek jest prosty: piszmy po polsku

  6. Cytat Zamieszczone przez Tomasz P.
    wniosek jest prosty: piszmy po polsku
    Popieram

  7. #7
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    Open letter to ACP

    Dear Colleagues,

    I was happy to read about the meeting of ACP and FIDE representatives on the most important subjects of chess life. I think it is step in the right direction. However, as member of ACP I am very critical about ACP 's position on following subjects:

    E) Official hotels
    As far I remember , in all official FIDE events ,where players had to cover their own expenses( knock-out World championships) the players were never obliged to stay in certain specified hotels. So , I don't see any reason why FIDE should apply this rule now and why ACP should accept it.

    F) Time-control
    In return to ACP' statement:
    "the results of the poll held by ACP last year, ACP offers to go back to the classical 7-hours time-control".
    and position of all the sponsors and organizers of Top level events (as far as I remember there were NO ONE! 17 or higher category tournament where organizers had preferred Fide time control) and results of the poll conducted during European Club Cup in Crete 2002 , which indicated that majority of clubs also prefer classical time-control,

    FIDE brings the following arguments :

    - FIDE control is getting more popular among players: it now has more supporters than before as they are getting used to it and female players prefer this control to the classical one.
    - FIDE control is more attractive for media and spectators.
    These arguments (except for female player's preference of Fide control) are pure demagogy.

    Most spectators on internet and the best coverage in media are gathered in Top events, which are played with classical time control. Fide has to admit that their time control didn't help to attract any big sponsor to chess. Concerning Fide' statement that more players like this control now, I can say that my experience shows the opposite. I heard opposite from a lot of players,and all the polls taken from 2001, when this control were forced on some events show that the VAST MAJORITY of a players dislike this time control.
    Taking this in account I deeply regret that ACP representatives failed to support a clear wish of their members and allowed Fide to use their unpopular control in all the events they'll find it proper. As a member of ACP I demand that during next such a meeting in July, ACP representatives should return to this subject and succeed in defending demands of their members.

    I) Future World Championship Cycles
    4. Players' Undertakings
    As Fide hadn't fulfilled their promises in past (long-lasting problems with a payment for Las Vegas 1999,Cancelation of Grand Prix in 2002 etc.) it is understandable that they are reluctant to sign any contract with the players and prefer that just the players would have obligations, and no rights at all. However ACP showed their position before last year's event in Tripoli, and when few of the favorites of the event(ACP members - Bareev, Khalifman, Svidler) supported it, Fide just excluded them from the tournament.
    So, I think ACP should consult their members and if majority of potential participants of FIDE events would prefer it, ACP leaders should demand contracts from FIDE.

    I hope that ACP’s representatives would defend interests of their members more successfully in future meetings.
    Sincerely Yours
    Boris Gelfand
    07.06.2005

  8. #8
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    Cytat Zamieszczone przez mrozik
    Cytat Zamieszczone przez Tomasz P.
    wniosek jest prosty: piszmy po polsku
    Popieram
    Ja także. Piszmy po polsku. Natomiast jak jest tekst po angielsku, to można go albo wkleić, albo przetłumaczyć albo olać. Nie znam niestety nikogo, kto chciałby dobrze tłumaczyć od ręki i za darmo, szkoda olewać tekst, jeśli jest ciekawy, więc nie widzę lepszego rozwiązania jak wklejanie tekstu w wersji oryginalnej.

  9. #9
    Tutaj jest propozycja Johna Nunna odnośnie organizacji MŚ FIDE. Po angielsku ;-)
    http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2440

    Podobno właśnie tak to będzie wyglądać w Argentynie na przełomie wrzesień/październik. Cytat :
    I wrote the first version of this plan for a world chess championship in February 2005. This document was not for publication but was circulated amongst a small group of players and officials. At the end of the Linares tournament Frederic Friedel discussed it with FIDE deputy president Georgios Makropoulos and vice president Zurab Azmaiparashvili. Since then, FIDE has announced the forthcoming World Championship to be held in Argentina during September-October 2005. I cannot say whether my ideas had an influence, but this event bears a remarkable similarity to my suggestion! However, FIDE have not (yet!) taken on board my ideas for a qualification system for future World Championships. This plan may be of some interest to the chess public, so I give it below.

    Czyli Friedel przekazał projekt Nunna dla Makropulosa i Azmajparaszwilego na zakończeniu turnieju w Linares, a ci go wykorzystali cichcem, nie biorąc go na oficjalną agendę FIDE
    "Niecierpliwość jest wrogiem myślenia" George Koltanowski
    "Zwyciężyć i spocząć na laurach to klęska, być zwyciężonym a nie ulec to zwycięstwo" Józef Piłsudski

  10. Interesuje mnie pewna kwestia poruszona przez Nunna, a mianowicie poparty przez ACP i FIDE pomysł odbierania punktów rankingowych zawodnikom nieaktywnym. Jest to dość kontrowersyjna idea a Nunn przytacza trafne moim zdaniem argumenty przeciwko niej. Jestem ciekaw waszej opinii. Czy sprawa ta dyskutowana była wcześniej szerzej wśród członków ACP?

  11. #11
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    Cytat Zamieszczone przez Jerzy
    Czyli Friedel przekazał projekt Nunna dla Makropulosa i Azmajparaszwilego na zakończeniu turnieju w Linares, a ci go wykorzystali cichcem, nie biorąc go na oficjalną agendę FIDE
    Pomysł Nunna nie jest nowy, wiele osób mówiło o zorganizowaniu turnieju w celu wyłonienia mistrza świata. Projekty Nunna i FIDE znacząco różnią się, dlatego ja bym powstrzymał się przed sądami, takimi jak ten Jurka.

    Cytat Zamieszczone przez marcuss
    Interesuje mnie pewna kwestia poruszona przez Nunna, a mianowicie poparty przez ACP i FIDE pomysł odbierania punktów rankingowych zawodnikom nieaktywnym. Jest to dość kontrowersyjna idea a Nunn przytacza trafne moim zdaniem argumenty przeciwko niej. Jestem ciekaw waszej opinii. Czy sprawa ta dyskutowana była wcześniej szerzej wśród członków ACP?
    Ta sprawa była, jest i będzie przedmiotem dyskusji. Ja osobiście uważam, że system rankingowy powinien ulec głębszej przebudowie, z uwagi na zbyt wiele błędów, jakie zawiera. Być może także zmianie powinno ulec samo podejście koncepcyjne. Obecnie, ranking jest przybliżeniem siły gry zawodnika, natomiast wydaje mi się, że w dzisiejszych czasach bardziej zasadne jest, aby ranking opisywał uzyskiwane przez zawodnika wyniki. To są dwa zupełnie różne podejścia. Jest oczywiste, że w tej drugiej koncepcji, zawodnik nieaktywny będzie tracił na rankingu.
    Czasami odnoszę wrażenie, że niektóre osoby nie za bardzo rozumieją różnicę w obu podejściach i mieszają je, co niekoniecznie musi doprowadzić do pozytywnych zmian.

  12. #12
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    Bartlomiej Macieja responds to Boris Gelfand's open letter to ACP


    Dear Boris

    Thank you for your letter. It is always very useful to receive comments, especially from top players. I will try to clarify the position of the ACP:


    E) Official hotels

    Let me remind you that in recent official FIDE events where players had to cover their own expenses, they were still obliged to stay in certain specified hotels. Let me quote the regulations of the 2003-2004 FIDE World Chess Championship:

    3.2.4.7. Except with the prior approval of the FIDE President (in respect of the World Chess Championship, or the Continental President in respect of the Continental Championship), all participants are expected to stay in the officially designated hotel(s) for the respective Championships.

    The same was, then, repeated in the "Player's Undertaking for Participation in the 2003/2004 World Chess Championship"

    1.5. All the players qualified for the World Chess Championship must stay at the official Championship hotel of each city, and the name of this hotel shall be announced by FIDE and the Organizer of the Championship.

    One should not forget that fighting such unfair rules was the driving force behind creating the ACP two years ago. We also pointed at this problem in our letter to FIDE regarding the FIDE World Chess Championship in Tripoli.
    The greatest success in this matter was achieved in Europe - at the ECU General Assembly in Calvia 2004, the common recommendation of the ACP and the ECU Board to cancel the obligation for players to stay in official hotels was approved by national federations, thus the rule was deleted.
    At the recent meeting in Athens, the ACP proposed to follow the ECU's example to abolish the official hotels rule, but FIDE representatives disagreed. However, a certain progress has been made. FIDE promised to keep hotel prices firmly under control, while the ACP would be informed about them beforehand. Obviously this is not the optimal solution, but a visible step has been made in the right direction.


    F) Time control

    You are completely right stating that the vast majority of players dislike FIDE time control and prefer 7-hour rounds. Many polls have proved that. You mentioned the latest results published on the ACP website, the common opinion of the organizers of high-level tournaments and the result of the poll conducted during the European Club Cup 2003. I should add, that similar polls were held during the World Chess Championship in New Delhi 2000 and the European Chess Championship in Ohrid 2001. Strangely enough their results have never been published.
    For those reasons, the position of the ACP remains constant - we encourage FIDE to change the official time control to (100'/40 + 50'/20 + 10'(or 15')/SD) +30" [100 minutes for 40 moves + 50 minutes for 20 moves + 10 (or 15) minutes to the end of the game + 30 seconds per move (added from move 1)]. This was chosen by the players as best for use in official events like the World Championships, Continental Championships, and Zonal Tournaments. As FIDE representatives didn't share the opinion of the ACP, the discussion will be continued.


    I) Future World Championship Cycles
    4. Players' Undertakings


    The ACP examined the question of players' undertakings very seriously. We discussed it both with players and FIDE and reached a compromise which is a huge step forward from the initial situation. In matches and tournaments where the number of players is limited, contracts will be signed between organisers and players directly, while in other events a contract between FIDE and organisers will be added as annex in players' undertakings. Moreover, if the sponsor cannot hold the event, the money given as guarantee to FIDE (currently 30% of total prize fund) should partly go to players to compensate them for lost opportunities.


    Sincerely yours
    Bartlomiej Macieja
    ACP Secretary

  13. #13
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    Open letter to ACP (2)

    Dear Bartek,

    Thank You for a prompt reply. I think it is essential to have open discussions between Board members and other ACP members in order to enhance democratic core of ACP. Still I want to insist on further discussion over some points of my letter. The most topical in my opinion is the following:

    F) Time control
    I want to thank You for adding more value to my arguments. I would like also to remind the poll conducted by FIDE in 2001 during the events in Cannes and Monaco. As already then players were strongly against Fide's invention, the results of this poll was never published by Fide. However , to my and my colleagues big disappointment , ACP representatives approved following decision during their meeting with Fide representatives:

    To reduce the choice and make it more convenient for players, FIDE will recommend to all organizers to use only one of the following two controls:
    - FIDE official control: (90'/40 + 15') 30" starting from move 1
    - 7-hours control: (100'/40 + 50'/20 + 15') 30" starting from move 1
    ( for those events which don't have electronic clocks it means:
    110'/40 + 30'
    120'/40 + 60'/20 + 30')
    This recommendation will be made in August during FIDE Presidential Executive Board Meeting in Dresden.


    This clearly means that Fide would have complete right to impose their time-control in all the official events .That's why I again demand that ACP representatives should return to this subject and succeed in defending demands of their members. I see it as s crucial test for ACP. If our representatives cannot protect players' rights in such an important issue, which, by the way, doesn't require ANY additional financial costs (which is often an excuse for not taking proper steps and not accepting important decisions), It undermines the idea of ACP existence at all. I joined ACP sharing the declared vision and ideas regarding the modern chess world, thus I can't understand and accept your position, when ACP is unable to take a firm stand, and in fact, gives the green light to Fide's unprofessional decisions, which is ruining a classical chess.


    Sincerely Yours
    Boris Gelfand

  14. #14
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    Bartlomiej Macieja responds to Boris Gelfand's second open letter to ACP

    Dear Boris

    First of all I would like to cordially thank you for your activity. It is extremely important for the ACP Board to hear opinions of chess professionals, especially ACP Members. Such an activity allows us to work more efficiently and to improve what needs to be improved. I encourage other chess professionals to take an example from you and Alexei Shirov, who wrote us valuable comments regarding the ACP Tour. As more opinions, suggestions, and comments are said, as easier it is to find the optimal solution and to avoid mistakes.

    F) Time control
    After reading your letter I realised, that the report on the recent ACP-FIDE meeting in Athens could be found a bit confusing. To avoid possible misinterpretations I would like to clarify, that the ACP has not approved the FIDE proposal to reduce the time control. The position of the ACP is exactly the same as yours - we encourage FIDE to change back the time control in official events like the World Championships, Continental Championships, and Zonal Tournaments to the one supported by the vast majority of players, i.e. 7-hour with an increment of 30 seconds. However, as the FIDE representatives refused the ACP proposal, the discussion needs and will be continued. Meanwhile, both the ACP and FIDE agreed that it would be useful to reduce the choice of different time controls in other tournaments, to make it more convenient for players, as currently they should permanently adapt themselves to a new control. Therefore, it was decided to make an applicable recommendation to all organizers.

    Reassuming:
    - Both the ACP and FIDE agreed to recommend organizers to reduce the choice of different time controls to make it more convenient for players.
    - The discussion which time control should be used in official events will be continued, as the FIDE representatives refused the ACP proposal to use the time control chosen by the players as best.


    Sincerely yours
    Bartlomiej Macieja
    ACP Secretary

  15. #15
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    Apr 2005
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    Drugie spotkanie FIDE-ACP:

    http://www.chess-players.org/eng/new...le.html?id=407

    Prosimy Bartka o dodatkowy komentarz. Czy czegoś zabrakło w tej relacji? Jaka była atmosfera spotkania?

    Pzdr. M*

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